Adam Dornbusch Transcript
[00:00:00] Jason: Do you want Instagrammers or TikTokers to post about your brand? Or do you actually wanna engage creators who influence their audience to buy your product? If you’re in the ladder of those two, you’ve come to the right place. Welcome to Winfluence, The Influence Marketing Podcast.
Hello again friends. Thanks for tuning into Winfluence, The Influence Marketing Podcast. Before we get into the show today, a reminder for those of you listening on the podcast, the audio portion that Winfluence is now available, in amazing technicolor.
If you’d like to see the magic as well as hear it, I do have a handsome beard you could look at. Pop over to the YouTube channel and subscribe. The easy way to get there is jasonfalls.co/youtube, jasonfalls.co/youtube. Of course, you can also search for Jason Falls Winfluence or Winfluence on YouTube and find it as well.
The new video episodes go live on YouTube, LinkedIn and Twitter each Monday at 11:00 AM Eastern, 8:00 AM Pacific. So folks can join us for lunch, brunch, or breakfast viewing on the stream, or happy hour dinner, midnight snack. If you’re dialing in internationally. The audio podcast will still be there for you. It will also go live at the same time though, which is a little later in the day than it had been going. So if you’ve been listing on your Monday morning commmute, on the eastern time zone, and before that, it’ll be a little bit later in the day. So you might have to catch us at lunch or maybe on your way home on Mondays, but it will be there.
Of course, you can always wait and let’s do it on Tuesday. As long as you’re listening, we don’t care. But it’ll go live at the same time as the video, regardless of where you’re listening or watching. Thank you for being here and following along on our journey to understand more about influence and influence marketing.
And now for today’s topic, if you haven’t been thinking about user generated content and how your brand can leverage it lately you’re late to the party. UGC has become one of those three letter abbreviations that everyone instantly understands, at least in the marketing world. And I wonder why that is.
Well content from users the normal, regular social media user who posts content about a product or service is by definition, more authentic. We’re talking about your normal fans and followers here, not necessarily influencers or professional creators, though they can cross over into the same space, sometimes.
That authenticity is present because the content is coming from people just like the audience, people who are thumb scrolling on a social network, hoping to see something interesting. If a professionally produced photo or video from a brand, if that comes down, it has to be super compelling right away to stop and look or watch.
If I see content about a brand from a friend or person who seems more real to me, I’ll give it more of a chance to sync in because they’re using or showing me a product the way I might see it, or I might use.
Some of these users, consumers, whatever you wish to call them, actually produce some pretty good content. Brands can then seek permission to repost or even license that content for everything from their own social media content to paid advertising, creative, and everything in between.
Influencers and creators can also be tapped for their content without any requirement, they post it on their own channels. Many brands are tapping into this influencer as freelancer approach because in many cases, online content creators are better at specialty content like Instagram reels, Tiktoks and the like, than say, classically trained advertising creatives or people at agencies.
Using a professional influencer as your creative production outlet can save costs from professional photographers or videographers, but it can also come with the other part of influencers, exposure to their audience as well.
But therein lies a bit of a conundrum for marketing professionals. If you start sourcing creative from the crowd, what happens to our production houses, professional photographers or other creatives that are an important part of our ecosystem?
I wanted to dive into UGC a bit more. So I called up Adam Dornbush. He is the CEO and founder of EnTribe. It’s a software company that helps brands cultivate, license, and organize user generated content, UGC. So if anyone knows about this stuff, it’s Adam.
He got his start in the entertainment industry and at one point wound up at GoPro where content acquisition was one of his duties. Remember that GoPro campaign that awarded up to 5 million dollars for the best photos and videos submitted from GoPro users? Yeah. Adam had something to do with that.
You could say he spent the better part of the last 10 years helping brands figure out how to get authentic content from the crowd, and often at a much better cost than the alternatives.
So today I’m gonna ask him to fill us in on all things UGC, then arm wrestling a bit, and ask about how much is too much. I think you’ll be interested in what he has to say.
This episode of Winfluence is presented by Cipio.ai, the community commerce marketing platform. It has a family of apps that helps you drive commerce through your own community.
One of those apps is focused on helping creators and brands be more efficient with their time. And in today’s economy, we know efficiency, is important. Whether you’re a brand or a content creator, you probably spend a lot of time writing and rewriting captions for social media content, but you also have to make sure that content will perform well by keeping up with the trends across social media, previous post performance, and all that good stuff, right?
Cipio’s, generative AI content app is called Community Generative ai, or CGI for short. Think of it as an AI content generator with an extra brain for optimizing social media posts and predicting success. Tell CGI the idea of your post or even campaign. Give it a call to action, the tone of voice you prefer and the length of the word count.
And then with the push of a button, you have a library of smart content recommendations with predictive analysis of how that post will perform. Cipio’s powerful AI engine digs into big data of over 140 million social media users, posts, images and videos. It mines that data for deep learning insights to give you not just content, but content that will perform that makes it very different from other AI content generators out there.
Now all of you know I’m not a fan of automating content creation, but that’s not the point. CGI produces a ton of great content to save you, writing time. You still need to edit, proofread, make sure it’s perfect, make sure it’s on brand.
But the CGI application gets you 90% of the way there, which saves you time. Cipio.ai wants to give you all of that power for a two week free trial. I’ll give a link in just a second to sign up. So get out a pen and paper. If you’re driving, just come back to the show notes or something. I don’t want you to distract you doing that.
So there’s no credit card required to sign up for this two week free trial. Go to jasonfalls.co/cgi, jasonfalls.co/cgi. Go there and start creating all the captions and content you need with the click of a button. It’s free for two weeks. Just see if you like it. And by the way, after the two week free trial, if you do like it, it’s 20 bucks, a month.
Super simple. I bet you’re gonna this stuff, jasonfalls.co/cgi. Seriously, this will change the game for those of you who are maybe at agencies, or at a brand that has maybe multiple products, multiple social channels, and you spend a lot of time writing social captions. If you have a lot of clients that you need to write for, It’s gonna help you out. jasonfalls.co/cgi.
What is up with the explosion of conversations around user generated content and is user generated content setting professional creatives up to see their livelihoods evaporate. Adam Dornbusch of EnTribe and I will discuss next on Winfluence.
Adam, before we get to the user generated content, conversation piece of this thing. I wanted to mine your, background a little bit. You basically started and wound your way through the entertainment industry, I believe, and then landed at GoPro. Give us the little, Adam Dornbusch origin story. How’d you get here?
[00:08:37] Adam: Yeah, happy to. So I spent about 20 years in digital media, basically taking television and film products, putting ’em on the internet. So we started one of the precursors to Netflix streaming over at Starz Encore Entertainment. Launched one of the first video on demand channels over at Ripe Tv and then ended up at Tribeca Film Current Tv, which is Al Gore’s television network. Ran BizDev there for a while, and then ended up over at GoPro, starting the media company.
[00:09:03] Jason: That is an all-star roster of places to be. The Tribeca is that Robert de Niro’s, company?
[00:09:09] Adam: Exactly Tribeca film. So it was it’s film festival that he started right after 9/11. And one of his main things was to bring people back to the city after 9/11.
But what he realized was he was actually helping independent filmmakers really get their start. And what he wanted to do was, him and Jane and everybody else, behind Tribeca wanted to empower filmmakers. And so what I ended up doing was licensing the first slate of their films officially so that we could distribute it outside of Tribeca Film Festival.
So we put it on, United Airline Seatbacks. We put it on video, on demand, a bunch of other places, which was really exciting.
[00:09:45] Jason: That’s awesome. Got any good Bob stories you can share?
[00:09:49] Adam: He used to pinch my cheeks every time I would see him. Like he was my grandfather. It was really funny. He like, you’re such a cute boy, and they slap me.
[00:09:57] Jason: Somehow that doesn’t surprise me. That sounds about like something that Bob De Niro would do. That’s funny.
[00:10:02] Adam: Yeah.
[00:10:03] Jason: Good deal. Okay so you wound up at GoPro and you’re there, really in its formative years of exploding, anyway. Tell us what that ride was like and how you and the team landed on what I think is a very simple but brilliant strategy of just letting your users do the filming, as it were.
[00:10:20] Adam: Yeah, thanks. It was a wild ride, so I joined about two years before they IPO-ed, so we’re talking about. 10 years ago today. And Nick, he had built an unbelievable brand. He, built an incredible culture over at GoPro and the cameras, of course, speak for themselves, create piece of technology. I’ve got a ton of them still in my office.
But what he hadn’t really done was engaged with his customers. He had a bunch of influencers, amazing talent like Sean White, Kelly Slater, a bunch of other great people who are driving the brand from a aspirational standpoint.
But what Nick realized was what was really driving the sales of the cameras was people identifying with the brand and saying, I can do that. So it was the inspirational content that every user was posting to social media with those cameras. That was really driving the conversation.
And so what he wanted to do was start licensing that user, generate content at scale, build a community of content creators, empower them, teach them how to create the content that he was looking for, make it more on brand, use better lighting, wear brighter colors, show the logos whenever possible in front of the camera.
But also he didn’t want to show fighting content and other things that really didn’t speak to the brand. So what we set out to do when he brought me on board was to license user generate content at scale, from all over the world, from any of our customers photos and videos, empower them. Reward them for doing and, really curate the best of that content, teach them how to make better content. And suppress the content that didn’t speak to our brand.
And I felt like over the four years I was at GoPro, which was, 10 years ago, up to about six years ago, we did that incredibly well. That was a lot of the hype during the IPO of how GoPro is building a media company. And it was really a media company to sell the cameras.
But it was a lot of fun and we did it at scale, we were licensing about 250,000 pieces of content every single year from our content creator base. We had inefficiencies there because no one had built a platform to streamline that process. But we figured out how to do it at scale. We stoked out our users and I’m proud to say I actually GoPro Awards, which is one of the programs I started, there’s still alive and today and they still reward well over a million dollars to their content creator.
[00:12:29] Jason: That’s crazy.
Well , the work that you were a part of there continues to resonate with marketing teams everywhere, so congratulations on that. So I heard the tea leaves, twisting over there. As you were talking in 2017, you left GoPro and started EnTribe.
I guess you should start by telling us what inspired the business. I think we kinda already heard a little bit of it, but what problem did you see that needed solving and then, let that lead you into telling us more about what EnTribe does.
[00:12:56] Adam: Yeah, it was interesting, we started getting so much press, so much notoriety for GoPro awards, but also just being able to leverage user generated content at scale.
And other brands started realizing that not only were their customers using GoPros to capture content, but they were just using the cell phone in their pocket. The cell phone was able to capture high quality photos and videos. People were posting to social media, and we started seeing that more and more brand images were appearing on social media than the brand could ever put out.
So what we see at EnTribe is, brands started losing their voice through content. So back when, social listening popped up to get control of brand messaging when social media really started taking off, now brands are losing control of their creative and so they’re losing control the photos and videos that represent their brand because far more impressions are hit on a Nike shoe than Nike could ever put out of their own content because people are posting pictures of Nike shoes all the time, and they don’t have control of those social media posts.
So I started getting calls from everyone from Equinox to Marriott Hotels saying, how do we empower our user base and how do we leverage user generate content at scale? And I said at GoPro we had a team of 50 to 60 people running this process. Most brands can’t afford that. And they said, yep, can’t afford that.
But I realized that if I had a piece of software that could streamline that process, that could do everything from content acquisition, user activation, content curation, moderation tools, rewards tools, and more importantly than anything communication tools with our customers or our community, then anyone should be able to do that.
And so I set out for the first couple years, self-funding it to prove that, I did. And just in the last couple years, we’ve really started scaling the business.
[00:14:40] Jason: That’s awesome. I’ve been aware of, and have actually seen in EnTribe’s evolution a little bit cause I’ve, talked to you four or five years ago, when you guys got started and seen some changes from what you’re doing over the years. I wonder if that original concept of what you’re trying to do, or the execution of it has changed much since the beginning. How is EnTribe different now than when you started.
[00:15:04] Adam: It’s changed a little bit, but the core mission’s always been the same, which is engaging your community in leveraging authentic user generate content at scale for marketing initiatives but what has changed is we didn’t realize how many different verticals this appeals to. How many different kinds of companies really need a tool like this and to engage not only with their customers, some are engaging with their employees, some are engaging with their students. We’ve got university clients now.
We’ve even had, AstroTurf company as a client. We’ve had edible printing companies as clients, people that you would never expect, but of course the big boys. Hershey’s is one of our favorite clients. We’re international with them. Circle K’s been one of our best customers for years and never thought a convenience store would need to use user-generated content.
But even more than that, what they’ve realized is, it’s less about the content. It’s great for marketing purposes. It’s more authentic than influencer content. It’s more authentic than any brand messaging a creative company could ever put out. But what they’ve realized is engaging with that community gives that community a voice and brings them into the marketing fold.
So instead of having a few people going out there shooting for you, that you’re paying now, you’ve got hundreds if not thousands of content creators that are essentially working for you for free.
[00:16:16] Jason: That’s fantastic. We’re talking to Adam Dornbush. He’s the CEO and founder of EnTribe. Nifty little SaaS platform that helps brands source, license, and manage user-generated content.
When we come back after the break, I want to talk a little more about the problems Adam is solving for brands with regard to UGC, but then also get into maybe a little healthy debate and discussion about the content explosion. Stay tuned.
Back on Winfluence with, Adam Dornbush from EnTribe. Adam, you mentioned before the break, one of the problems EnTribe set out to solve was helping brands be safe and compliant with user generated content. How bad was the marketplace back then, 2016? 2017? How bad were brands at just using people’s content willy-nilly. And how different is the marketplace now in terms of licensing?
[00:17:15] Adam: You know, I think brands are starting to wise up. Definitely their lawyers are starting to wise up because there’s been a lot of lawsuits, privacy’s been getting hit over the head, as you can see, and a lot of different tech sectors. People are cracking down. Users, general customers are realizing that their content is not only valuable, but there’s privacy issues.
And so in the past, brands would just grab stuff off social media, repost it, think that they could use it in their paid advertising shoot. We’ve even seen user generate content and TV commercials where it wasn’t officially licensed before and it was a mess.
But, coming from my background of licensing, television and film content from the major studios of the world, I came into this with a different mindset. I came into this with, let’s protect the customers first. Let’s protect the community first, and let’s make sure the brands are a hundred percent secure in their licensing rights. And so we’d go through a lot of hurdles to make sure that those rights are officially cleared, that we’re tracking them over time, along with the content that the community’s protected, but also the brands are protected.
[00:18:16] Jason: So let’s get into the tool a little bit. Help me clarify here, because EnTribe, as I understand it, and I’m not an hands-on user obviously, but I’ve seen you guys evolve over the years, but you’re not necessarily an influencer marketing platform. You’re not necessarily a creator marketplace. It’s a place where you can source EnTribe around your brand or topic or vertical.
Then manage permissions, the, organization, licensing you can archive and all the usage and stuff. Is that accurate or is there more to it, am I missing something?
[00:18:45] Adam: That is absolutely accurate. So I think there’s two pieces to your question. The first piece is, yes, we’re different than an influencer marketing place. We’re not selling you a community that might not be your own. We’re not trying to match you with social and psychological demographics, with an influencer out there that’s just gonna charge you money. And basically it’s like hiring a celebrity. It’s no different than hiring George Clooney to do your TV commercial, right? It’s just else TV I takes…
[00:19:06] Jason: That takes a budget right there by golly. That’s a… hey, that’s one handsome Kentucky, and we got something in common. There you go.
[00:19:13] Adam: You need casamigos kind of money to do that. But so we help you find your authentic community. We will do it for you. In most cases, the brands say, hey, we don’t have the bandwidth to do it.
No problem. We’ll do it for you. We’ll find your authentic community, whether it your, employees, your customers, your students, whoever it is, we’ll reach out to them. We’ll communicate with them. We’ll bring them into your marketing. And help you leverage their user generate content. But then we’ll also up-level that content.
So the second part of your question is, what else do we do? We do a lot of other things. We help with rewarding, we help with communication. But more than anything, we talk to those customers, we talk to those creators, we tell ’em exactly what kind of content you’re looking for, and so will you see most user generate content is not usable by a brand.
It doesn’t meet brand standards, it doesn’t meet, the creative criteria. We work with those creators that have it close. And we make it much, much better. So we see usable content being less than 1% of user generated content go up to closer to 10 to 20%. In some cases, we actually had a recent World Cup campaign through one of the large auto manufacturers, which I’m not allowed to name on this program, but they were a sponsor of the World Cup and we had 80% approval rating by the brand of all the content submitted, which was spectacular.
[00:20:25] Jason: That’s outstanding. You can’t get 80% approval on anything. So…
[00:20:29] Adam: I’ve never seen it that high, but I guess the brand gave criteria out to the community through us, and we got back exactly what we were asking for. So…
[00:20:37] Jason: That’s fantastic.
[00:20:38] Adam: A big difference between a lot of the platforms out there which help you just find stuff on social media that’s already been taken or tell, influencer what you’re looking for, but you really have no control over the creative. When you educate a member of your community that actually cares, they’ll give you back what you want or better.
[00:20:54] Jason: Absolutely. So you touched on this a little bit on some of the unique, uses of the platform. You’ve got education, but you said you were surprised at some of the verticals and whatnot that use it.
And we’ve talked about UGC, at this high level of, collecting UGC. Well, what are some of the use cases for UGC at a more granular level? What are the various types of brands you work with? What are they doing with all the content?
[00:21:19] Adam: Yep. It’s a great question. We actually get that all the time. So the first answer is social media, right? There’s so many places to post through digital platforms, whether it’s your website we enable web galleries and a bunch of media distribution, so that’s obvious. Posting to Instagram, Facebook, other social media platforms, TikTok, we can help enable that.
But what gets better is when you get high quality content, you can start using it in everything else. Out of home advertising, billboards we’re working with one large, company on digital signage. So digital displays in, theme parks and things like that. You can use it in television commercials, but even more than that, you can actually start circulating it to your, retail partners.
So our channel marketing partners at GoPro had a real hard time getting approved assets and being able to track those assets. We’ve just launched a new product called Media Hub, where it’s great for CPG companies that are trying to distribute marketing assets to their retail channels. Or it’s even better for agencies to be able to send, behind a closed wall assets to their brand partners. So the brands that are engaging these agencies for approval.
So they’ll send it out closed wall media hub out to their agency. The agency just sees the assets that they want them to, or the media brand sees the assets that the agency wants them to. They approve it, and then the agency can roll with it. So it’s a very secure way for agencies to work with their brands behind the scenes.
[00:22:45] Jason: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense cause if you’ve got, hundreds or thousands of images or videos or whatnot to choose from and the agency is collecting that content, it’s very easy to say, hey, here’s the folder of stuff that hadn’t been approved, and here’s the folder of stuff that has been approved and let’s copy.
And oh, where’d did it all go? And now all of a sudden you’re using something that hadn’t been approved and you get in trouble. So sounds like that’s gonna solve that problem.
[00:23:09] Adam: We also employ several different types of AI to help filter that process. So if you have thousands of pieces of content in different folders, which several of our brands do, we have AI, they’ll add metatags, help you filter, sort, block what you’re looking for or help you narrow down to the stuff you’re looking for very quickly.
[00:23:25] Jason: Nice. Pictures of me normally wind up in the handsome folder I’ve found.
[00:23:29] Adam: Absolutely. I love the beard.
[00:23:32] Jason: All right, so what are some watch fours? I know UGC can also come across sometimes if you haven’t appropriately briefed, the community out there. If you’re collecting more of kind of the ad lib stuff or the stuff that’s preexisting, what are some watch fors?
I know it can come across as unprofessional sometimes even defeat the purpose if the creator’s too overly polish or crafty in how they create content that has brand stuff in it. There’s a nuance between posting about a product and posting because you’re endorsing the product. So what red flags does your team look for when you’re cultivating good UGC for brands?
[00:24:05] Adam: And you actually just called out the biggest one, which is authenticity. If somebody feels like they’re seeing an image because it was sponsored, because it was paid for, they can smell that.
There was a huge survey that just happened, 29% of respondents that saw influencer content and they recognized it, actually dissuade them from buying from that brand. It actually said, was a turnoff to them. In the same survey, 85% of influencers were seen as inauthentic or unrelatable. Whereas just a general customer, the general, user, they can smell what’s real and what’s not.
Also, on a lot of social media platforms, you have to call out paid. advertising If you’re doing true UGC, you don’t have to call that out as advertising cause it’s not you’re just asking somebody to do something without getting paid. You can reward them after the fact if they do a great job, cause you’re just stoking them out because they like your brand, you’re not directly paying them for the content. And you know what? That resonates better. And we also see a much higher uptick in, engagements online and just brand mentions.
Other things to watch out for security. Security’s a big one. We started talking a little bit about privacy. People are getting a lot wiser to that and realizing that if you steal content, if you don’t have truly approved rights, if you’re not sure if the content creator actually took that photo, it could have been somebody else’s that they ripped off the internet, you could get in a lot of trouble and agencies and brands don’t wanna do that these days. So you gotta have a very secure rights clearance process.
[00:25:27] Jason: Good stuff. All right, so I wanna pose this question to you cause it’s something that concerns me about the UGC world as more and more brands turd toward users, followers, customers, and like for images, they used to have to source from professional photographers or videographers, designers, production artists, copywriters, and the like.
Are we perhaps in danger of creating a supply and demand crisis for traditional marketing creatives? How much UGC is too much? or is my hypothesis there way off? And if it’s way off, then why?
[00:25:57] Adam: No, I think you’re, absolutely right. I think there’s always gonna be a need for the best high quality creatives. But there was a massive explosion when cameras became cheaper over the last, 20, 30 years. Production studios didn’t need, the massive cameras anymore. And there was a huge influx of, call them semi-professional producers. Maybe they are professional, maybe that’s actually how they make their money, but they’re not part of a major studio.
Major studios, I believe, will always have a place because you do need some glossy, high quality content, but you don’t need the volume of it that we have today. Because there’s such a glut content. I compare it to, the television industry. We have so much TV out there. Yeah, you can keep pumping out just as much TV, but only the best stuff’s gonna rise to the top.
[00:26:42] Jason: Yeah, that’s very true. It’s an interesting comparison. I hadn’t really thought of the user generated content versus ad creative, professional art school, creative person in the context of, hey, digital cameras, digital video editing and whatnot. Professional photographers did not destroy professional videographers.
In fact, it probably created more than it destroyed. So it’s interesting to see how that, evolution might happen. I love that perspective.
[00:27:06] Adam: From the other side, which is the viewership perspective. So if you look at you and me, we’re a little bit older and so we probably watch, Netflix and Hulu, but my nephew who’s 11 years old, watches YouTube and he watches people playing video games on Twitch and other places like that, where user generated content is the name of the game. That’s all they’re watching.
[00:27:27] Jason: Yeah.
[00:27:27] Adam: And so as this demographic gets a little bit older and starts having buying power, it’s gonna be really interesting what’s gonna resonate with them, for brands versus what’s resonates with us.
[00:27:37] Jason: Yeah. I just hope that they don’t do away with all the traditional entertainment channels until I’m dead. Let me enjoy ’em until I can no longer enjoy ’em and then do whatever the hell you want do with them.
[00:27:47] Adam: They’ll still be there. They’ll just look a little different.
[00:27:49] Jason: That’s true. Adam Dornbush, CEO, founder of Adam Dornbusch. Thanks for taking some time with us today. Tell people how they can find the platform. And you on the interwebs.
[00:27:59] Adam: Yeah, please. Thank you so much Jason. This has been a pleasure. Please come to www. EnTribe.com. That’s E N T R I B E .com or just email me [email protected] entribe.com.
[00:28:09] Jason: Awesome. We’ll make sure the links are all done up in the show notes. Be sure to pop over and give EnTribe a look. See Adam, man, I appreciate you.
Keep up the great work, dude.
[00:28:17] Adam: Appreciate it. Jason. Thanks so much. Talk to you soon.
[00:28:19] Jason: Good, good stuff I’ve seen in EnTribe’s, evolution over the last three or four years. Actually, a good friend of mine, Malcolm DeLillo, is on Adam’s team. So I saw it in its infancy and then have seen it a couple of times during its evolution and maturation. Hell of a platform. Check it out entribe.com
Also don’t forget to check out and completely change the way you produce social media content for the better. Get the community generative AI app from Cipio.ai, a two week free trial, no credit card required that awaits you at jasonfalls.co/cgi.
If ladies and gentlemen, you, enjoy Winfluence, which I hope you do, help us grow. Tell someone about the show. You probably know someone who might want to know more about Influence Marketing. Send them to Winfluencepod.com or share a link to this episode on your social network of choice.
If you have a moment, drop, Winfluence or rating or review on your favorite podcast app. We are on them all. The show’s now on video as well, just look for Jason Falls Winfluence on YouTube to see the show as well as hear It.
Winfluence is a production of Falls and Partners and presented by Cipio.ai. The technical production is by MPN Studios. Winfluence does Air along MPN, the Marketing Podcast Network.
Thanks for listening folks. Let’s talk again soon on Winfluence.